Group definition of elevator surround curtains

27defne27

New Member
When I do not define the curtains around the elevator as a group, the system is easily solved. When I define it as a group, I get the error that items 4.3.2.4 a and b in the regulation exceed the rate of 0.75 in article 4.3.4.5 Do I have to define the curtains around the elevator as a group? What exactly does it mean to define as a group? can you help me.
 

Levent Özpak

New Member
Hello, Curtain group means that the curtains are evaluated as a single element. In TBDY 2018 article 4.3.4.5, "Modelling techniques, in which curtain arms are modeled and calculated separately, will not be used for curtains with cross-sectional shape of T, L, U or C." it is called. For this reason, elevator curtains must be entered as shell element and defined as curtain group. Whether the rollover controls in 4.3.2.a,b and 4.3.4.5 are provided is effective in determining R, D and BYS.
 

27defne27

New Member
If my curtain cross-sections are not from the shapes described in the regulation article, if two curtains are connected by beams in parallel and perpendicular to each other, do I still have to define a group by group? Can I also choose the curtain material with a gap in this way? Do you mind if I get R=8 D=2.5?
 

Ismail Hakki Besler

Administrator
If the curtain group satisfies the condition of the bond beam(s) connecting the two curtains or the curtain group, you can choose A14 and get R=8 D=2.5. In this case you have to satisfy Equation 4.14 as defined in regulation 4.5.4. Curtains with a red cross in the picture above can never be defined as group curtains. Curtains enclosed in green rectangles are defined as a group. The curtains combined with the tie beam from the left-hand curtains can be defined as gap curtains. Hollow curtains are deemed to be curtains without spaces if the tie beam does not meet the condition of commitment.
 

sadikcafer

New Member
Although I made the elevator curtains as a group, I could not solve the cutting error and insufficient reinforcement error. Except for the basement floor, all other floors have these faults. My project is hollow and semi-rigid, I get this error when I analyze it, when I choose fully rigid, the curtain errors go away, but many beam and floor errors appear. A project consisting of basement + z + 4 floors. According to the new regulation, should I solve it half or completely? Also limited or mixed? Thanks
 

sadikcafer

New Member
"saridurmus":3our37yz" said:
You can get more accurate suggestions if you share your data.
If you send your e-mail address, I will send the file. The file is a little loaded 300-350 mb
 

MaFiAMaX

New Member
"sadikcafer":3uqnonqx" said:
"saridurmus":3uqnonqx" said:
If you share your data, you can get more accurate suggestions.
If you send your e-mail address, I will send the file. The file is slightly loaded 300-350 mb
To reduce the size of your project, first make a rigid aperture solution. Next, delete your drawing outputs (eg formwork plan, column detail etc.) if any. Then click on the ideCAD logo in the upper left and save the project compressing from the drop-down menu. The file extension is .cde. Either attach this file to your forum post, upload it to
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and share the link here, even if it is not small enough to be included. NOTE: By default, when uploading files to wetransfer site, the file sending method is set to send via e-mail. You click on the 3 dots icon at the bottom left and turn your submission method into a link.
 

sadikcafer

New Member
"MaFiAMaX":7k2hrix3" said:
"sadikcafer":7k2hrix3" said:
"saridurmus":7k2hrix3" said:
If you share your data, you can get more accurate suggestions.
If you send your e-mail address, I will send the file. The file is a little loaded 300-350 mb
To reduce the size of your project, first make a rigid diaphragm solution, then delete any drawing outputs (eg mold plan, column detail, etc.) Then click on the ideCAD logo in the upper left and save the project by squeezing from the pop-up menu .The file extension will be .cde. Either attach this file to your forum post, if it is not small enough to include, upload it to
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
and share the link there. NOT : When uploading files to wetransfer site, by default the file sending method is set to send by e-mail. You click on the 3 dots icon at the bottom left and turn your sending method into a link.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
thanks the file is attached.
 

unver

New Member
Hello
"sadikcafer":2dc6ilnb" said:
Even though I grouped the elevator curtains, I could not solve the cutting error and insufficient reinforcement error. These errors exist on all floors except the basement floor. My project is hollow, semi-rigid and I get this error when I analyze it. When I choose rigid, curtain faults go away, but I encounter many beam and floor faults. A project consisting of basement + z+ 4 floors. Should I solve it half or completely according to the new regulation? Also limited or mixed?
My suggestions: --Flexible according to TBDY2018 structures are penalized, --It was not enough to group the elevator curtains, --Your rollover safety is small according to Article 4.3.4.6, add a symmetrical earthquake curtain in both directions, so that your insufficient columns, beams and curtains will be sufficient, --Check the ground bearing strength, ensure the safety of the ground. It should be approximately 2.5 times more than the normal level, --Take live load on the rib beams on normal floors, 60/32 beams (0.6-0.2 wall thickness)* (0.35 h.y+0.2 floor covering) load a)=0.22 t/m -- Support the ladder and dissolve it together with the structure, (minimum d=15 cm) --Increase the raft reinforcement, --The concrete value can be C30. Unver ÖZCAN
 

saridurmus

New Member
Unver Bey, in addition to what he said, I will say. Turn the columns in the middle and the columns around the staircase circle into curtains for the relaxation of the system, which has become one-sided due to the architecture. Create a distribution beam that exceeds 4m in length for your hangings. Also, when designing the hollow block direction, design it perpendicular to the long beam. If the ground parameter is marked as ZF, then there must be a consultant engineer in this project.
 

sadikcafer

New Member
I did what unver brain and saridurmus said, the system is still not resolved. I turned the columns on the side of the stairs into curtains, the system cannot be solved.
 

unver

New Member
Hello
"sadikcafer":1oax4jnj" said:
I did what unver brain and saridurmus said, the system still can't be solved. According to TBDY2018, structures with hollow blocks are penalized,
You are not required to dissolve hollow blocks in this regulation. Return to the column beam system. Unver ÖZCAN
 

sadikcafer

New Member
"unver":21ch9zkd" said:
Hi
"sadikcafer":21ch9zkd" said:
I did what unver brain and saridurmus said, the system is still not resolved. I turned the columns on the side of the stairs into curtains, the system cannot be solved.
"unver":21ch9zkd" said:
My Suggestions: -- According to TBDY2018, structures with hollow blocks are penalized,
You are not required to solve the hollow block in this regulation. Return to the column beam system. Ünver ÖZCAN
I understand what you are saying, Mr. Ünver, but does the regulation ask us to make the hollow floor system at all, or if you do, do you need to do these (adding curtains to the system, increasing the concrete grade, etc...)?
 

unver

New Member
Hello, it doesn't say "Don't do it", but it does limit it.
"sadikcafer":1poofylf" said:
(adding curtains to the system, increasing the concrete class, etc...)
Even if you increase them (it can be very difficult to balance the structure), you can't do it as before. Unver ÖZCAN
 

saridurmus

New Member
In your project, the system is weak, and when you make hollow floor tiles, you weaken it thoroughly. The system is not stable. Your frame is good on the outer contours, but weak on the inner contours, if you strengthen it, you can analyze it. I say rearrange the carcass system. The regulation doesn't say don't make hollow blocks, but it just made the rules a little heavier, that's all.
 

sadikcafer

New Member
I made concrete C30, added additional curtains to the carrier system, turned the columns into curtains, but I still cannot fix the cutting errors. (Whether I choose stirrups 10-12 or make curtains 30cm thick, I always get a cutting error). I need to fill this project, can you help me? My project is attached.
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2m proje

New Member
Hello there; Serious arrangements seem to be required in your formwork plan, I think additional columns and curtains are needed. I am sharing an example work in the attachment. Some adjustments may be required according to the analysis result, it is just to give an idea. Best regards.
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sadikcafer

New Member
"2m project":ghrhnzar" said:
Hi; It looks like serious arrangements are needed in your formwork plan, I think additional columns and curtains are needed. I am sharing a sample study in the appendix. Some adjustments may be required according to the analysis result, it is just to give an idea. Best regards.
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Thank you very much for your effort and work, but unfortunately the architectural project does not allow it to be done this way. We have constantly changed the architectural project, but this seems to be the most ideal. Not only did I make a curtain on the side of the stairs, I also do it, but if there is no room for me to try by dividing the middle column into two parts, we will turn the complete carrier system into slab flooring.
 
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