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Turkish Hello. I need to model spring curtains in my project. There is no such option when creating curtains. when i make a polygon it shows up as a bar element and basically i get a stapling error. when I create an arc and turn it into a curtain, I cannot create a single piece of element and there is a disproportionate amount of reinforcement on the end curtains. What do I need to do to create a one-piece element to run as a shell
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spring curtain problem
- Thread starter Muhpen
- Start date
When you select a polygon column in the column option under the reinforced concrete option, there is a p box on the far right. Did you check it and analyze it, sent from my SM-G610F using Tapatalk"Muhpen":jg17hc8g" said:Hi I need to model arc curtains in my project, there is no such option when creating curtains. when I make polygon, it appears as a rod element and basically I get a punching error. What should I do to create a one-piece element that will work as a shell?
HakanŞahin
Administrator
"Muhpen":xl3qad9g" said:I solved the problem. As far as I understand, this happens when I convert arc lines to polygon. I created a polygon column using straight lines.
Hi, Arc and curvilinear curtains can be modeled as polygon columns and rods. Modeling as a one-piece shell is not within the scope of the program possibilities. Could you show us your process in a small project by adding a screenshot so that we can understand that situation that made you ask questions in the forum and somehow disappeared?"ssesli":xl3qad9g" said:Hi, I am having the same trouble. If you can share the data file, we will have a chance to see how you solved the problem. You can even just put a polygon column. Thanks
As far as I understand when creating polygons, the lines we use need to be straight. The problem occurs when the arc line is involved. My problem was solved when I removed the arc line and created the polygon with straight lines as seen in the picture. Since the file size is large, I am giving the link of the data. Good work.
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HakanŞahin
Administrator
You mentioned three different situations in your first message: 1. Spring curtains are not modeled as shells 2. Stapling problem 3. Disproportionate reinforcement in polygon column After"Muhpen":3eckxmul" said:I am linking because the file size is large. Good work.
. You didn't specify what disappeared. In order for us to understand the subject, you need to give us the following information: Before, this was happening, but when you do it this way, it seems like this problem is solved..."Muhpen":3eckxmul" said:as far as I understand, this situation occurs when the arc lines are converted into polygons. I created the polygon column using straight lines and the problem disappeared. You wrote
I wrote the problems in the first message of the topic, let me repeat. I needed to define an arc-shaped polygon column in the project. I was encountering an abnormal stapling problem when I created this using an arc line. the mesh lines formed on the basis were not as they should have been. When I examined the shell results, I saw that the curves that needed to change in waves under the column were in the form of a single point (1 cm2 maybe), and therefore punching verification was not provided. when I converted the arc line into a curtain, the stapling problem I mentioned above disappeared, but this time abnormal reinforcements were thrown at the end parts of the curtain, which consisted of several pieces. When I changed my arc line to a broken line and created a polygon, I realized that both the reinforcements, the mesh lines and the curves in the basic shell results made more sense. As for the shell element issue, I need to be able to define the element as a curtain, not a column. Since I could not do this in one piece, I created a polygon column and marked the "p" option in the reinforced concrete column window.
HakanŞahin
Administrator
If you have this version of the project, you can add that project to the message. Can you send an e-mail to [email protected]?"Muhpen":ycoci96l" said:I was encountering an abnormal stapling problem when I created this using arc line. The mesh lines formed at the base were not as they should be. When I examined the shell results, the curves that needed to change in waves under the column had a single point (1 cm2 maybe) When I converted the spring line into a curtain, the stapling problem I mentioned above disappeared, but this time abnormal reinforcements were thrown at the end parts of the curtain consisting of several pieces.
I deleted the corner polygons in the data I gave the link above and modeled it again with an arc line.
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shell results are open in the right window. mesh and stapling as follows:HakanŞahin
Administrator
Hello again,
The stapling values in the base column in your 1st project and the stapling values in your 2nd project look normal."Muhpen":x2w0ige6" said:I was encountering an abnormal stapling problem when I created this using arc line.
The screenshot you added is not related to stapling, it is related to the reinforcement values in the raft slab. Staple values appear normal."Muhpen said:":x2w0ige6"]basically formed mesh lines were not as they should be. When I examined the shell results, I saw that the curves that needed to change in waves under the column were in the form of a single point (1 cm2 maybe), and therefore punching verification was not provided.
I recommend you to use the enlarge connection region option in the analysis settings. With this option, although the polygon column is a bar element, we will connect the column to the finite elements in a wider area. In the attached screenshots, you can see that the meshes are formed as you expect"Muhpen":x2w0ige6" said:the mesh lines formed at the base were not as they should be.... when I convert the arc line to the curtain, the stapling problem I mentioned above disappears. I noticed that the curves in the basic shell results make more sense.
In both projects you added, polygon column reinforcements look normal. (41fi16, reinforcement is below 1%.)"Muhpen":x2w0ige6" said:but this time, abnormal reinforcements were thrown at the end parts of the curtain consisting of several pieces.
Adding the polygon column to the alphas calculation P in column reinforcement does not affect the analysis, it only affects the alfas account."Muhpen":x2w0ige6" said:since I couldn't do this in one piece, I created a polygon column and selected the "p" option in the reinforced concrete column window.
I had a few questions about this subject as well; 1- For example, since the minimum cross-section size of the element that we created with a 25*70 cm line and converted into a polygon column is 25 cm, why doesn't it give an error message that it should be min 30 cm according to the regulation in geometry control? 2- Can an element drawn in a curvilinear form be converted to a screen? If it can be translated, which command do we use, if it cannot be translated, it is recommended to define the polygon as a column and mark the P tab from the reinforced concrete settings. 3- Should a curvilinear object be considered a column or a curtain? (I would appreciate if friends with project and construction site experience would answer) Good work..
Levent Özpak
New Member
Hello -Minimum size control is not done automatically in polygon columns."vecih":345y86bl" said:I would have a few questions about this subject; 1- For example, why the minimum cross-section size of the element that we created with a 25*70 cm line and converted into a polygon column is 25 cm, according to the regulation in geometry control? Doesn't give an error message saying it should be cm?
-You can convert the arc object to a curtain. Draw an arc with the arc command. Select the arc. Select the arc. From the right-click menu, select "To curtain Click the "convert" command. In the dialog that opens, give the number of parts on the arc. Click OK. The curtain is made from parts will occur. - In the column reinforced concrete dialogue, the P column has no function in TBDY 2018, nor is it used. Good work2- Can an element drawn in a curvilinear form be converted to a curtain? If it can be translated, which command do we use, if it cannot be defined as a polygon column and mark the P tab in the reinforced concrete settings If it is suggested and P is marked, if the program only adds this element to the alphas calculation but accepts it as a column, wouldn't it be against the regulations to have a minimum cross-section of 25 cm?
Mr. Levent mrb, Although I created spring curtains as you stated, there were some problems in the project, especially the amount of reinforcement. The program also gave the drawings of these spring curtains in a jumbled way. Could you please review the project in the link. What would your recommendation be?
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Levent Özpak
New Member
"vecih":8v7viaiy" said:Levent Bey mrb, Although I created spring curtains as you stated, there were some problems in the project, especially the amount of reinforcement. The program also gave the drawings of these spring curtains in a confused way. Could you please examine the project in the link. Your advice what happens?You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.[ /quote] Hello, -There is no problem in the data entry and analysis model of the spring curtains. It is also correct to model it as a group. You get a warning in the report because none of the curtain parts provide the 1/6 aspect ratio. Curtain arc lengths are around 170 cm and the arc angle is not much. You can model the curtains as flat and make the necessary arrangements in the drawings.Or you can model them as a polygon column by making the short side thickness 30 cm.(Create the closed area of the polygon column with lines) -We continue to work on modeling the spring curtains as one piece is doing. Some other notes: -Define the K12-K14-K23 beams with the name on the ground floor with the bow beam command instead of the curvilinear beam. -In the general reinforced concrete parameters dialog, enter 30 degrees in the "Continuously accept beams/curtains with small angle difference between them" line. -For a precise calculation, we recommend that you analyze the project by reducing the finite element widths of slab, curtain and raft (eg 25 cm). Good work.