Laying conditions for ideCAD Program Rigid Analysis

E

engineer_yildiz

New Member
Dear users of the form and idecad officials who always try to help us, Subject / Question - 1) Limitations and conditions of load-bearing elements in TS 500 and TDY 2007 are about to obtain rigid elements. The current standards and regulations have almost tied our hands in solving us with Rigid analysis. Semi-rigid analysis is more realistic, rigid solution is farther from real behavior, or vice versa. Without evaluating these issues (opinions): If we want to solve our structure with the rigid analysis method, does the İdecad program have guiding instructions for this? For example, in ribbed (toothed) floors (if it is longer than 4m or not, should the rib directions be in the short direction or in the long direction?). What should we do in order to obtain more accurate results when the flooring is made with "rigid analysis" in case of cassette, ribbed, normal flooring? (Can we calibrate the "Rigid solution" for slabs according to the results of Semi-rigid analysis?) Topic / Question - 2) If at least 1 rib of the same length perpendicular to the carrier teeth is required for rib slabs exceeding 4m, is there a requirement to ensure the continuity of the transverse rib? Subject / Question - 3) What kind of solution method should be followed when there are 3 types of slabs (ribbed, cassette, our normal slab) on the same floor in our building, when the typical beam continuity cannot be provided? Subject / Question - 4) In case the ribs cannot be continuous in cantilever floors with beams on both sides, should the rib directions be straight into the structure (parallel to the cantilever beams) or perpendicular to the cantilever beams? Subject / Question - 5) In which case the slab gaps that should be on the slab should be created with the slab gap command or with the slab edge command Thank you, I wish you a good work.
 
Re: Laying conditions and testing for Idecad Program Rigid Analysis I am writing from my mobile phone. So I will try to write short. 1- You confused the issues of rigid and semi-rigid analysis with designing a rigid structure. That's why I recommend that you review the threads on this forum again. The direction of the rib flooring teeth is a matter for the engineer to decide, depending on the geometry of the structure. The important thing here is to transfer the load to the column and from there to the foundation in the most accurate way. 2- It would be very good if the transverse ribs were continuous. However, the fact that the two adjacent slab sizes are not the same may sometimes not make this possible. 3- It is correct to make the typical beams as above continuous. All typical beams parallel to each other need to be continuous 4- as in the first question it is important to transfer the load correctly. Due to the program structure, a single rib beam cannot be designed. 5- Chimney small ventilations should be made with floor space, large ventilations and gaps caused by stairs, floor edge or beam. N. YILMAZ
 
Re: Idecad Program Laying Conditions and Class for Rigid Analysis Subject / Question - 1) Limitations and conditions of load-bearing elements in TS 500 and TDY 2007 Obtaining rigid elements is about to be able to. The current standards and regulations have almost tied our hands in solving us with Rigid analysis. Semi-rigid analysis is more realistic, rigid solution is farther from real behavior, or vice versa. Without evaluating these issues (opinions): If we want to solve our structure with the rigid analysis method, does the İdecad program have guiding instructions for this? For example, in ribbed (toothed) floors (if it is longer than 4m or not, should the rib directions be in the short direction or in the long direction?). What should we do in order to obtain more accurate results when the flooring is made with "rigid analysis" in case of cassette, ribbed, normal flooring? (Can we calibrate the "Rigid solution" for slabs according to the results of Semi-rigid analysis?) Your Comment: 1- You confused the subjects of rigid and semi-rigid analysis with designing a rigid structure. That's why I recommend that you review the threads on this forum again. The direction of the rib flooring teeth is a matter for the engineer to decide, depending on the geometry of the structure. The important thing here is to transfer the load to the column and from there to the foundation in the most accurate way. Thank you for your advice. I request you to re-read what I wrote. If I misinterpreted, I would be glad if you correct me: Rigid analysis=Rigid behavior of the structure=Rigid movement of structural system elements in accordance with TDY= TDY and TS 500 rigid laying conditions. TS 500 limitations make us make rigid flooring. (You may not participate in TS 500 or TDY as a personal opinion). It is useful to ask the question briefly as follows: What are the correct slab design criteria in accordance with the program's capability so that we can analyze the slab (rib, cassette, plate) realistically when I choose Rigid analysis in the program? (What are the slab design criteria that will transfer the load to the column and to the foundation most accurately?). Subject / Question - 2) If at least 1 rib of the same length perpendicular to the carrier teeth is required for rib slabs exceeding 4 m, it is necessary to ensure the continuity of the transverse rib. Is there an obligation to provide? Your Comment: 2- It would be very good if the transverse ribs were continuous. However, the fact that the two adjacent slab sizes are not the same may sometimes not make this possible. What should be the correct approach to take if it is not possible? Subject / Question - 3)We have 3 tile types (ribbed) in our structure. , cassette, our normal flooring) on the same floor, what kind of solution method should be followed when the typical beam continuity cannot be provided? Your Comment:3 - It is correct to make the typical beams continuous as above. All typical beams parallel to each other need to be continuous To be more clear? Subject / Question - 4) beams on both sides In case the ribs cannot be continuous in cantilever slabs, should the rib directions be straight into the building (parallel to the cantilever beams) or perpendicular to the cantilever beams helps to calculate more accurately? Your Comment: 4- As in the first question, it is important to transfer the load correctly. Due to the program structure, a single rib beam cannot be designed. To give a closer answer? Subject / Question - 5) In which case the tile gap command should be on the tile? It should be created with or with the slab edge command Your Comment:5- chimney small vents should be made with slab gaps, large vents and gaps caused by stairs, slab edge or beam. Why then? Thank you for your interest and comments.[/b ]
 
Re: Idecad Program determines the design rules of TS500 reinforced concrete elements, laying conditions and class for Rigid Analysis. It is the subject of structural analysis and earthquake regulations under the name of semi-rigid analysis. When analyzing the structure, there is no rule to model the floor diaphragms as "rigid diaphragms" in the TS500. There is a "semi-rigid diaphragm" issue in all the advanced earthquake regulations in the world. This issue is also emphasized in the new 2017 earthquake regulation that will be issued. Please review the documents listed in these links about semi-rigid diaphragm (flexible diaphragm).
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 
Re: For Idecad Program Rigid Analysis, the way the flooring works may change due to the laying conditions and what we call class 5-space. For example, opening large tears on some edges can turn the tile into a console shape. But a simple hole according to the slab size does not change the load transfer pattern. You can watch this from the colored meshes where the post-analysis stresses are shown in the program. It is necessary to pay attention to the gaps, especially in ribbed floors. The ribs should not be cut. 4 - in fact, continuity is essential in rib flooring. In this sense, even if there are cantilever beams on both sides, if there is a rib floor that will provide continuity behind it, it would be more correct to arrange the floor you ask as a console. What is meant by the word load transfer is actually how much bearing capacity the beams press on by the ribs. (horizontal, vertical, stub, long, short, etc.) 3- cassette upholstery teeth and rib teeth are generally different from each other. Between the ribs is filled with light filling material in the market. (styrofoam etc.), however, there are cassette molds in special sizes for cassette floors. Therefore, it is usually not possible to fix the tooth gaps. If all three flooring types are used in a project, it means that there are many different openings and this tooth continuity may not occur. 2- Let's say we have two floors side by side, one 4.8 m and the other 6.6 m. What will you do? In this case, you can do two things: first, you make transverse threads with an interval of, say, 2.3m, divide the first slab approximately in half, and the second slab in three at the same interval and continuously. Secondly, you do not create continuity by dividing both tiles into two. Both of these are true. 1- To summarize briefly and intelligibly: in a rigid solution, it is assumed that the slabs behave perfectly rigid in their planes. However, their real behavior is not like that. That is, the structure does not actually move horizontally from the floor level in the x and y directions. It makes a parabolic movement in space with vertical deformations as well. The influence of the support it is attached to here is also very effective. For example, imagine the behavior of a tile that has one edge pressing against the curtain. (or examine using the analysis model of the program) As it is understood from here, slabs are not actually infinitely rigid as in rigid acceptance. Nowadays, this non-rigid (semi-rigid) behavior of floors can be analyzed thanks to the active features of computer programs. This allows us to find the real structure behavior. This fully rigid issue gains a different dimension in rib slabs. While rib slabs can be considered as rigid in one direction (? I think this is also debatable), in the other direction they can only be as rigid as slab thicknesses. For all these reasons, it is necessary to choose semi-rigid ACCEPTANCE in building solution. I think it's a little more understandable. The TS500's forcing rigid flooring is something different. What is meant to be said there is that it is better to support all sides of the floors as much as possible. Let me answer one more question 1b- If we consider the bearing of the building in reverse, the building is related to the ground, then the first priority element is the foundation. Then the columns and curtains that transfer this load to this foundation. Therefore, shouldn't these columns and curtains be in a certain systematic order? So we don't put all the vertical carriers on one side of the beer, do we? Well, where will the load come from on these vertical carriers, of course, from the beams. The beam-column relationship is important here. Loads should not be moved to the stud beams much inside the building, the beams should be continuous so that the load distribution is smooth. Accordingly, the floors should transfer loads to the beams well. I've been trying to type from my cell phone for an hour like a chicken feed. Insha'Allah it was helpful. Sent from my SM-N915F using Tapatalk
 
Re: Laying conditions and testing for Idecad Program Rigid Analysis Thank you Mr. NYILMAZ for your effort to explain the subject in an understandable and patient manner. The subject I want to talk about is not Rigid or Semi-Rigid. At the beginning of the topic, "Semi-rigid analysis is closer to reality, Rigid solution is farther from real behavior, or vice versa. There are opinions about it. Without evaluating these issues (opinions): Our structure If we want to solve it with the rigid analysis method, does the İdecad program have guiding instructions about it? " I expressed it this way. I want to talk: If we want to solve our structure with the rigid analysis method, does the İdecad program have guiding instructions about it? For example: Things we should pay attention to when designing the tiles are there? etc... Thank you and I wish you good work.
 
Re: Laying conditions and class for Idecad Program Rigid Analysis The new earthquake regulation to be published determines in which situations calculations should be made with the "Flexible diaphragm" method. Download and examine the draft regulation:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
"Semi-rigid diaphragm" ie "Flexible diaphragm" solution is the most accurate in all conditions. gives. There are cases where the rigid diaphragm acceptance gives an erroneous result. These situations are listed in the regulations and the engineer is directed. In any case, the regulation that will be issued orders us to make a "Flexible diaphragm" solution in these cases.
 
Re: Idecad Program Laying conditions and testing for Rigid Analysis I understood very clearly what you want to say. But I can't explain myself. The subject I want to tell is not Rigid or Semi-Rigid. What I'm trying to explain is: If we want to solve (design) our structure with the rigid analysis method, does the İdecad program have guiding instructions for this? For example: Pay attention when designing the floors. Are there things we should do? etc... I would like to thank those who want to help on the subject and wish them a good work.
 
Re: Idecad Program Laying conditions and testing for Rigid Analysis
"engineer_yildiz":imt2lafy" said:
If we want to solve (design) our structure with rigid analysis method, İdecad Does the program have guiding instructions about this? For example: Are there things we should pay attention to when designing tiles? etc...
Click to expand...
Yes there is. 1 ) When designing floors, for example, if your floors have large gaps, definitely use the Elastic diaphragm method. 2) Take the earthquake effects in the flooring design, but also consider the in-plane effects in the flooring design. 3) Examine the reinforcement need of the flooring as shown in the attached pictures. If you use the rigid diaphragm method. You are assuming no in-plane effects.
 
Re: Idecad Program Laying conditions and class for Rigid Analysis directions (parallel or perpendicular to the long or short beam), plate thickness of the rib slab, etc. For calculation: the effects (torsion, shear, moment, etc.) on the ribs themselves and on the beams to which they are connected require correction or recalculation etc. Guiding instructions/helpful information about required situations will be useful if we use the program in Rigid analysis. Thank you to everyone who contributed, I wish you a good work
 
Re: Laying conditions and testing for ideCAD Program Rigid Analysis Dear engineer_yildiz, I'm sorry but I think you don't understand this issue. It seems to me that you are in a confusion of terms. Of course, I give some credit. Because when you look at the answers given to such questions (as if you know) on different forum sites, one gets confused, of course. It's a shame for anyone who wants to learn. In this context, it may be useful to mix up a little technical documentation. Sent from my SM-N915F using Tapatalk
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top