Curtain cut safety and other

C

civilman

New Member
My respected colleagues. As a beginner engineer, I am looking for a solution to my missing and errors in the attached file. I would be very happy if you say that it would be better if you presented the more appropriate value than the values I entered in the analysis settings. Thanks in advance
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Hello, I have 2 suggestions for curtains, the bottom part is usually a problem in this style of U curtains, so making the curtain width 30 cm or making the concrete quality C30 solves your problem. Apart from that, your hollow floor loads seem a little low to me. I'm thinking. Evaluate the pavement interactive solution based on your foundation and floor class. respects
 
Thank you so much. I took the floor loads as standard residential loads, and entered the landing and balcony loads as required. Do you have it in other analysis settings or is it fine like this? Is there a possibility to fix the curtain without increasing the size or changing the concrete class?
 
You can try putting two columns on the corners. I didn't have the opportunity to examine the analysis settings in detail. I can recommend the use of semi-rigid hollow blocks. Also consider the superstructure interaction, respect
 
(Written according to the nomenclature on the 1st floor) As with D39 - 41 38 slabs, rib slabs cannot be designed as a stand-alone console. (There is a similar situation for floors D1 - d6 - d10 -d14 on the mezzanine floor) S9 s18 columns as curtain objects and make them in 25/175 size. Then, as per the regulation, it will be a curtain and at the same time it will be modeled as a shell. All of the columns were in the same direction (x direction). Make the k13- k15- k11 beams continuous with the beams in front of them. Isn't it a bit too daring to make the joists 30/50? (in the 1st degree earthquake zone) If you had done vertically, you would have done a minimum of 25/50 anyway. How satisfying do you think it will be when you increase it by 5 cm and tilt it on its side. (6.5-7m spans available). Wouldn't you consider making some outer beams perpendicular? If this is residential, do not any walls come over the floor? (then the slab loads should be increased by 150 kg/m2). If the ground floor is a shop (based on the logic of the mezzanine), you should review both the basement ceiling and the ground floor ceiling loads. Try to make the ribs constantly. Did you adequately locate the low floor and air chimneys and other chimney problems? Take care not to cut the ribs. Isn't it better to move the ribs to the short beams than to carry them to the long beams? If you enter raft flooring, it is useful to choose a superstructure interactive solution. Enter the stairs into the system and transfer their loads or design them to be solved together with the system. You can connect the beam K43 and 31 perpendicular to the elevator curtain. Solve with a semi-rigid diaphragm.
 
NYILMAZ bro. Let me start by thanking you. I made the ribs as a console, because in the applications where I am, they put the phrase that the console will be made and it will be turned around. But as you said, it should be turned with a direct beam, I'll correct it. I learned that I'll enter the large columns as curtains as you said and do shell modeling. Thank you. I thought it was automatically detected as a shell. All of the columns were in the same direction, unfortunately, the architecture that came to me was like this and unfortunately it remained like this in order not to leave any teeth in the room, I could not change it. In the first project I made the beams out of the usual 30-50, I did 30-50 out of fear, not out of courage, since it was said that a beginner should look at the beams. I fixed the beam continuities after the project was sent. How many times do I need to take the flooring loads at the workplace? I could not connect the beams that you wanted me to attach perpendicular to the curtain, because they cut the ventilation. You said that the ribs should not cut the ventilation and chimney gaps. I show those parts as slabs, then specify the space in the autocad and put the reinforcement plan on the edge of the gap and translate it. How about without cutting the ribs? Is it appropriate that I will make continuous flooring and still make the superstructure interactive? I also learned about the semi-rigid diaphragm option, thank you very much. Waiting for your reply, best regards sir.
 
Dear civilman, I would like to state that I admire your professional courage. very briefly, I suggest you change your rib system to be completely parallel to the x-direction. However, you must increase the rigidity of the system in the Y direction. In this way, the console problem will be eliminated. What do you mean by continuous flooring? good work...
 
Hello, have you examined your first 3 modes in modal analysis? 1st and 2nd mode torsion. you have to convert some columns instead of y. Try talking to the architect.
 
"civilman":2pjvmqk5" said:
All of the columns were in the same direction, unfortunately, the architecture that came to me was like this and unfortunately I couldn't change it so as not to leave teeth in the room.
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An architect does not create a project alone. An engineer does not calculate and finalize it alone. At least two of them (including, of course, friends from other professions) put their heads together and create the project by meeting each other's wishes, expectations and requirements to the maximum extent.You will share your troubles with your architect and he will come up with new solutions by trying to understand you.You will put square columns, the location of the walls will change, some spaces will be sacrificed.
"civilman":2pjvmqk5" said:
In my first project, I made the beams 30-50 out of the usual 30-50, because it was said that a beginner should look at the beams, so I made 30-50 out of fear rather than courage.[/ quote] I couldn't understand what you mean by conventional. If it's a habit, it's a good habit. A lot of people smoke, it's a habit, but it's a bad habit. When looked at, it only seems to be harmful to the drinker, but now we all know that it is not so. It seems that the static design that you have done here will only return you (positive-negative) in project design, but it is not. People will live in the building you build. You wrote out of fear, not courage, but you chose a different fear for yourself. Instead of fear of what people will say, the fear of what might happen to the people who will live here is a more positive fear in terms of creating a good project.
"civilman":2pjvmqk5" said:
How much do I need to take the flooring loads at the workplace?
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TS498 says the live load for shops, restaurants, etc. is 500 kg/m2. Same for canteens, light workshops, etc. So it should be 500. I think. It is called 200 for shops up to 50 m2 in residences, but I think that there are not many such places today (since I have not seen the architectural project). Even if there are shops under 50 m2 in the architectural project, in general, these are combined and the shop is converted into a market etc.
" civilman":2pjvmqk5" said:
You said that ribs should not cut the ventilation and chimney cavities. I show those parts as slabs, then specify the space in the autocad and put the reinforcement plan on the edge of the gap and translate it. How about without cutting the ribs? .........Because the beams that you wanted me to attach perpendicular to the curtain were cutting ventilation, I couldn't connect them upright.
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In such flooring systems, holes and tears in the flooring are very important. These details, whose location is not well calculated, cause significant problems in the hands of uninformed people in practice. Drilling, breaking the beams, finishing the ribs without bracing. Since such gaps are especially at the bottom of the columns, the consequences of the error will be even greater. Therefore, you should see the design clearly and design the floors or ribs accordingly. For example, when you have a 2.5 m curtain, if there is a 1.5 m ventilation gap on its side, it means that you will cut at least 3-4 ribs here. In this case, it may be more correct to turn the ribs in the other direction. Or you don't lay low, but they can do low laying randomly at the construction site. Or something else, they may start to break the wrong places to place the wc stone.
"civilman":2pjvmqk5" said:
Is it appropriate that I will be laying continuously and still do the superstructure interactively?
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I think that by continuous flooring you mean the continuous foundation beam. There is no superstructure interactive solution for continuous foundations. I wish you success and good work N. YILMAZ
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Mr. k.yalvaç my respects. You have the right to be a coward, not a brave one, when you become a new monthly engineer. But as you learn, trust comes, and you don't have to be forced into someone else, courage will come, Insha'Allah. I am trying to make changes in the colon directions, at first glance, it seemed very bad to me as well. I've always written flooring, sorry, I was always going to lay the foundation. Thank you very much, best regards. Mr. doruk9261 thank you and best regards. You said that there is torsion in mode 1 and mode 2, I couldn't understand it when you looked at the report, can you explain a little more? Thank you very much for your help and interest.
 
Syin N. YILMAZ, respect, love, God bless you. In my first project, the inspection said it would be okay if you took 200. I paid attention to the gaps to be left on the floor and the floor beams. While passing the beams, a maximum of 50 cm will be cut in the rib beams and as you said, I will cut the ribs at least. I agree with you on the floor beams, I will make 30-60, insha'Allah. I meant to say continuous flooring, you understand. Thank you very much for sharing and helping us. I'm still a student, bro, school is over, but learning engineering is just beginning.
 
I cannot fit the sentence "to cut the least ribs" to a staticist. I think you should gain experience in an office for a while... As I write these, I don't feel comfortable at all, I don't want to offend or upset anyone, but as an engineer who graduated in 2007 and worked in the static project sector for more than 3 years. I am having serious difficulties in getting a job in the market. Anyone who doesn't know is doing this. A colleague, who has produced a large number of projects in the last few years, explained the R coefficient, Rigid basement, etc. While I'm talking about it, I feel cold inside from my work. While there is not a single project that I am responsible for yet... Currently, I put my professional ambitions (in terms of engineering) on the shelf. I'm trying to change my perspective. If I can't do that, I can feel that failure is imminent. I'm so sorry if I offended someone unknowingly or unintentionally. I'm a little busy right now so excuse me. bless your right. Good work... KEMAL YALVAÇ
 
May your path be clear. But I can't help but say one thing for the last time. Increasing the width of the beam is of course helpful, but it won't do you much. More beneficial is to increase its height. You know that the bearing capacity of bending elements is proportional to their moment of inertia. To give an example: moment of inertia of a 50/30 horizontal beam: from bh3/12 = 50x30x30x30/12 =112.500 cm^4 cross-sectional area=bxh=30x50=1500 cm^2 25/50 moment of inertia of a vertical beam = 25x50x50x50/12= 260,416 cm^4 cross-sectional area=bxh=25x50=1250 cm^2 Although the cross-sectional area of a vertically designed beam is less, its bearing capacity is more than 2 times. Let us now consider only the horizontal beam. Let's increase the width of the 50/30 beam 20 cm first. (It became 70/30) Section area 70x30 = 2100 cm 2 I=70x30x30x30/12= 175.500 Let's increase the height of the 50/30 beam by 5 cm. (It became 50/35) Cross-sectional area 50x35 = 1750 cm 2 I=50x35x35x35/12= 178.645 Here, we see that although we increased the width by 20 cm, we only achieved a carrying capacity in return for increasing the height by 5 cm. I gave such an example to explain how effective the underestimated 5 cm is. Of course, there are many other factors that affect it, but for the sake of clarity, I simply explained it through the moment of inertia.
 
Dear brother Kemal I am not hurt, I am not sad, your existence is enough bro. I know you are speaking for your brother's sake, brother. Those who gave me false information are an inspector brother in building inspection, and one of them is a 7-year-old designer. This is what I've always heard from them. That's why it's the healthiest and most accurate thing to learn and apply from brothers like you. Otherwise, by staying with them, the pro like them will accept it correctly, what will happen, I say it saves. That's why even if you're angry or don't answer, I won't let go of my brothers like you. Don't give up, brother, we need brothers like you. Dear Brother Yılmaz, I can't throw beams at 35 cm height because the floor thickness is 30 cm, brother, otherwise I know the importance of height, brother. Now you will say 35cm, why don't you do the flooring, but for obvious reasons, I did 35, all hell broke loose :) I will learn the truth and present the truth, I hope the market will slowly accept it.
 
Hi, I told you there is torsion in your 1st and 2nd mode. To see it, move the building in its modes by selecting MODAL from the perspective window > 3D Frame > Deformations > at the bottom right. Your 1st and 2nd modes are torsion. I think this will go away once it fixes the bugs in the build. There may be no torsional irregularity in the structure. It shouldn't have been. But it is important for the safety of the structure that torsion does not occur in the first 3 modes. (first 5 modes would be better) Bring the center of rigidity and mass closer together, reverse the column directions as needed, and if you are using curtains, try to throw equal or close lengths in both the x and y directions. Good work.
 
Dear Doruk, I agree with you in terms of removing the torsion tendency from the 1st and 2nd modes. It is important to reach pure oscillation and pure torsion modes in terms of the stability of the structure in an earthquake. Torsion (Rz) is a defined freedom in dynamic analysis. In other words, you emphasized that the torsional behavior of the modes should be examined, even if there is no torsional irregularity in the structure. We agree on this too. ''There may be no torsional irregularity in the structure. It shouldn't have been. But it is important for the safety of the structure that torsion does not occur in the first 3 modes. (first 5 mods would be better)''. you said. I would appreciate it if you could share a model that exemplifies this recommendation. Good work... KEMAL YALVAÇ
 
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